Jack (Jack Frost) - Doktor710

[Jack]

BYOND username:

Hans_Schneider

Banning admin:

Doktor710

Type of Ban:

Job ban

Duration of ban(if temp):

43800

Reason for ban:

Executed a prisoner without authorization from a head and without even knowing what his charges were. Said that if he's in perma brig he could be executed anyway. Had previous notes of killing people for bad reasons. Permanent jobban on security next time.

Your version of events:

When i saw this guy in brig before he want to perma he has trying to escape and apparently assaulted officers in his attempt (i was not there at the time). Later i saw him in perma brig which means he's done something AT LEAST on the level of murder, at least that was my thinking. When i came down into perma to clean it up because no one else did he was breaking the windows and placing bear traps in front of doors. If i had to describe his behavior from what i've seen so far it was on the level of a troll or someone that just really wants to cause problems. Naturally in IH fashion since being in perma is also on the level of capital punishment i figured i might as well since he's trying to trap and kill me. I then burnt him alive in perma. While i agree it was extreme, to my knowledge he was already just going to rot in there till he either committed suicide or disconnected and was generally just trying to cause a fight. I can see how this can be a IC issue but not a OOC admin ban enforced one. i broke no actual server rules and passed IC judgement on a IC problem.

Why you think you should be unbanned:

As i said, while my actions were extreme they were still IC judgement. Get fired from IH in game for breach of protocol for not asking a captains permission first? sure. But a 43800 minute job ban, thats uncalled for. The guy was in perma and was actively causing problems and fights and should supposedly only be in perma for murder so in my characters eyes he was fair game as soon as he started planting bear traps in a attempt to probably kill me. So unless we are job banning every single person for breaching the IC agreement i stand firm that this was completely uncalled for (i was also in fact caught by one of the traps while he was handcuffed). I will however admit that i should have asked why he is in perma rather than trusting it was for a good reason.

[Doktor710]

1. This person burned an entire permabrig to execute one person.
2. Previous note indicate he's very trigger happy.
3. He did not even know the charge the prisoner was put in perma for.

First of all, my point of view:
The AI ahelped about "Ironhammer immolating a prisoner", after responding to it I saw a burning prisoner and a burning permabrig. Immediately I asked who were the officers. First I question the officer who brigged the prison in the first place, he said that that the prisoner was putting beartraps around, he also attempted to escape several times, for that reason he was put in perma brig. After that I question the 2nd officer, the one who executed him, aka Jack Frost. He said that he executed him because he was in perma brig. Now there were several issues I noticed straight away: he executed him "because he was in perma brig", that is he did not know his actual charges, he just assumed he could be executed, as well, he executed the prisoner without any permission from any of the heads, which is a violation of the agreement. After that I checked Hans' notes and saw that he had two previous notes for killing people with a very bad reason. After talking to Gray he suggested a permanent or a month jobban, I picked the latter since killing a prisoner who was pretty annoying can be understandable in some way, giving a permanent jobban felt somewhatt excessive.

I think that Jack did not have good enough grounds to execute the prisoner, since he did that without even knowing the charges of that prisoner and without permission from the head, as the agreement states. The way that the execution was performed was inappropriate too, the whole permabrig was destroyed by the fire. What do the rules say? "You must have a good reason for killing another player. This can be: self-defense, a long-running conflict, the execution of the order (the person who gave the order will answer for the murder) and the execution of the death sentence.' This would fall under the execution of the death sentence, however this was not a legal death sentence, it wasn't a long-running conflict either, that turns it into an OOC issue of a player being killed without any good reason.

Jack had multiple options that would avoid getting him banned like requesting permission from a head for execution or getting a straight jacket. I would not object if a person that attempted to escape permabrig several times would be executed for it, as long as the execution was done properly, without breaking rules and the Agreement, however instead we have a burning permabrig and a burning prisoner inside, who was "executed" just because the operative wanted so.

[Jack]

Be that as it may, banning people over a IC ruleset is completely absurd. This man was actively trying to kill me and other officers and calling perma “ruined” is silly as well, the temperature stabalised shortly after and the worst damage was a burst lightbulb. There were no higher ranking officers in IH and the captain either joined at the time of the execution, after or simply didnt say a single word the entire round. Hence judgement was passed by myself after getting caught by his hidden bear trap in perma brig. To top it all off i did have a lengthy IC knowledge of this guy attempting to break out and kill officers prior to trying to kill me and break out. As a cherry on top, the FO at the time didnt even mind the execution other than it being “excessive”. If you are going to ban people over The agreement which is a IC ruleset then you should state it in the rules.

[Doktor710]

Be that as it may, banning people over a IC ruleset is completely absurd.

the worst damage was a burst lightbulb.

>windows broken
>perma depressurized
>high temperature in adjacent rooms

You did not get jobbaned for violation of the Agreement, you got jobbaned for violating the rules without justification and without authorization from the Agreement. Again, Agreement is partially admin enforced, at least because its related to the rules, there is no one else to beat the shit out of the captain who decided to just remove Neothelogy because he doesn't like it, thats why ancap doesnt work in irl too, because there are no admins to beat NAP violators with a banhammer.

There were no higher ranking officers in IH and the captain either joined at the time of the execution, after or simply didnt say a single word the entire round.

>straight jacket

The rest does not excuse you from the fact that you killed the person without any just reason that would follow the rules.

[Jack]

Windows were broken by the inmate and pressure/temp in other rooms were completely fine. Again, add it to the rules you admin enforce a IC ruleset then. This will be my last reply on the matter,

[Rosalimo]

Imagine accusing admeme in doing his honest work, smh. In my opinion Dok did nothing wrong from what I'm seeing so far. Yes most of the time IC situations remain in IC as long as it's not complete shittery, but this doesn't mean that rules are not going to be enforced one way or the other, even if we don't enforce the rules as hard and retarded as CM for example. I vote for the jobban to remain there at least for now.

[Gray]

Again, add it to the rules you admin enforce a IC ruleset then. This will be my last reply on the matter,

There's no reason to change our rules when they already tell you not to murder without a good reason.

[Jack]

Well he was trying to kill me, thats a good a reason as any on eris. If he had done that literally anywhere else and i had just shot him not a single soul would have cared. Not to mention if i didnt have the foresight to cuff him on the spot and i actually got fucked according to his plan and died not a single person would have cared either. Its rather one sided to hand me a lengthy job ban under the guise of not having a proper reason to kill him when he was in fact actively trying to kill me and other officers.

[Doktor710]

Self-defence only counts when in response to an immediate threat, a cuffed unarmed prisoner in perma serving his time is not a threat. That would be the same as if you Ironhammer would execute every person they arrest.

If he would kill you and would not have any good reason to do so I would PM him as well.

Overall, none of you had good reasons to kill eachother, but you both tried, and the one who succeded got punished.

[Gray]

I'm personally against completely lifting this ban, I wouldn't mind if it was reduced if you appeal again after the next test or two. I'll deny and lock this in a day.