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Post by Electrolyz »

So, before I get into my bitching, the story so far. I jump into the round as an Ironhammer operative. Captain says Excelsior confirmed so come to Brig and arm up. On the way there, a technomancer looks at me as I pass the TM lobby, pulls out a Novakovic, wields it, turns the safety off and shoots at me. I move and they miss, so I just run on to armory, assuming they're Excel and telling the other IH that. I arm up with lethals and we find the technomancer in the guild lobby. I order them to get on the ground, they don't. Five seconds pass, the other operative opens up with rubbers, I give them a few seconds to realize what's happening and get on the ground, drop the Novakovic in their hands, anything. They don't, and they start moving around like they're going to shoot back so I just lethal them down.

Fast forward ten minutes, they've ahelped me because... they died? Who knows. Genessee starts asking me what happened, I explained as I did here, he became passive aggressive. Whatever, I continue explaining repeatedly that I can't be expected to afford every chance to someone who's shot at me. We're not TG or Bay and here you're allowed to play stupid games and win their prizes.

His main points were these: The technomancer had apologized (literally), it had been "a long time" from me being shot at to the arrest attempt (five minutes, just the time it had taken me to get ready to face an armed threat), and that the technomancer was in an air alarm display UI when we told him to get down (therefore exempting him from IC repercussions for his IC actions, according to Genessee.)

I shouldn't need to explain why any of these don't make sense at all but I will. Apologizing (which I hadn't even noticed, and why apologize when you could show up unarmed to IH and turn yourself in) doesn't get you out of being arrested for assault under the Agreement. The time doesn't matter, it could have been five, ten, or twenty minutes from him shooting at me to him being arrested. In this case it was five minutes and we attempted to arrest him the very next time we saw him. Lastly, because he was in an air alarm UI he is suddenly exempt from IC repercussions? It doesn't make sense at all.

So, Genessee continues his passive aggressive explanation as to why I needed to meta-know that he was in an air alarm and therefore do nothing, that he apologized so I'm not allowed to apprehend him (I'm paraphrasing on that one but the technomancer having apologized was a big point to Genessee.), that I had nonlethals and should have done X, Y, and Z. I told him this was getting stupid, he had rules to follow, namely 3. We are a server with the minimum possible admin intervention. He chose not to listen to me or take into account my viewpoint at all. At this point he told me he was going to ban me for 12 hours and I told him that that was absurd and I'd be making an admin complaint. So, here we are.

To summarize, I think Genessee is drawing heavily on some experience from moderating another server. He doesn't seem willing to listen to the person he's PMing at all and has the mindset of a TG admin. The situation was pretty cut and dry: person shoots at Ironhammer, whether by accident (though I guarantee it wasn't) or on purpose, person doesn't turn themselves in, person refuses order to get on the ground when they have a gun in their hand, person dies and gets to come back in 30 minutes. Genessee blew things out of proportion here and generally threw common sense to the wind. This should not even be an issue and I'm not sure he's familiar with any of the server's rules, the setting, or the Agreement. For a server with the 'minimum possible admin intervention' he is very eager to tell me that I should have done X, Y, and Z instead of considering that I was trying to arrest someone who had shot at me and now had a loaded gun in their hands. Instead of using a sensible OOC perspective (how was I meant to know he was in an air alarm? Does that make him exempt from what he did? Can I do the same?) or an IC one (The suspect had a gun loaded with lethals and was refusing commands to surrender.) he just chose to criticize and ban me for playing as literally every other Ironhammer player does. He could have let the situation go down organically, as the rules encourage, and if he was really this concerned about it he could have just killed the technomancer's respawn timer and let that be the end of it. He went out of his way to punish me for doing something that was allowed in the rules and the sensible thing to do at that point from an IC perspective.

TLDR: Genessee has trouble figuring out which server he's on, I think.
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Re: Genessee

Post by Stevenator1 »

After looking into the conversations had over ahelp, it seems to me that Genessee acted with respect and in accordance to our rules. Though many things were touched upon that you feel are irrelevant or outright lies, such as the Techno's explanation of being in the air alarm menu, whether the shot he took was intentional or a misfire, and the time between the initial altercation and the attempted arrest/murder - it seems to me that Genessee viewed the situation as a violation of the Murder rule. The explanations given were not intended to absolve the techno of any IC guilt, but rather to clarify why non-lethals might have been a better choice.

Ironhammer are given a variety of non-lethal options for a reason, and IH improperly using lethals is a common issue that our admin staff have to deal with. Regardless of how much RP went into the situation, it's important for IH to choose the right amount of lethality for the issue at hand.

You bring up Admin rule 3 (We are a server with the minimum possible admin intervention) many times in both your ahelps and complaint, so I wish to address it. I think you're misunderstanding the intent of that rule - it's not meant to say "admins are going to avoid PMs unless something serious is going on". In other words, just because an admin is PMing you over something you perceive as a non-issue doesn't violate the rule. As I understand it, the intent of it is to avoid an admin *directly* changing the course of a round, via admin-bus, aheals, events, and non-critical bans before round-end.

Lastly, there were multiple times throughout the ahelp convo where you were outright rude to Genessee, such as "Whether you're just being an idiot or you're friends with the idiot that got himself killed", threatening an admin complaint before any verdict or punishment was handed out, and finishing out the convo with "Fuck you." Even if you perceive his intervention as passive-aggressive or heavy-handed, his response might have been different if you approached the situation calmly.
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Re: Genessee


Active rule lawyering and threating admins with complaint in addition for insulting genessee. All he tried to tell you that shooting someone with lethals for accidental discharge is a bad idea.
In my perspective he did everything possible to deescalate the situation, while you whined about not being able to kill someone and answering his reasoning with insults.
Which leads us to one question - is 12 hour ban is enough?
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Re: Genessee

Post by Plasmatik »

I just wanna add to this that Genessee has no respect for the people who actually care about playing a roleplaying game and being immersed. They have repeatedly demonstrated that by running events without permission, PRing ridiculous things like an anime catgirl vending machine and bothering people with PMs mid-round over completely valid stuff, ruining their immersion. Ironhammer shooting someone to death for rushing around with a gun after they were told to get on the ground should not be something that somebody gets banned for. He shouldn't even have been PMed about it until the round was over. By stopping an ironhammer officer from playing the game while they were forced to stand there and explain their completely reasonable actions in PMs, yes, Gennessee did in fact directly interfere with the round. The person was banned before the round was even over. There were still active criminals and fights on the ship, and the admins deleted an Ironhammer from the game, mid-round. That is pretty much the definition of interfering with the round.

And furthermore, bwoinking him over this, is literally holding Ironhammer - which are meant to be a fascist, jackbooted paramilitary group in a dystopian setting - to a higher standard than real life American cops. If someone had done what the person in question did IRL - had a gun in their hand, was told to get on the floor, started rushing at the cops - they would get gunned down without hesitation. This is just completely absurd. I don't know how anyone can call this rules light, or light moderation.

Every time I play the game with Gennessee online it feels like I'm playing BeeStation where I have to walk on eggshells around other players because the admins will respond to every little complaint no matter what merit it holds as though it's an egregious violation of the rules. Gennessee has no problem breaking the atmosphere with the admin panel, but gives people monumental amounts of shit just for playing as a realistic character. I absolutely agree that it feels like Gennessee is drawing on experience from moderating some low RP TG server and just doesn't get it.

People shouldn't be encouraged to adminhelp immediately after dying to get revenge on the person who killed them by having them punished by the admins, which is exactly what Gennessee facilitated right here. That person brought their death on themselves and had absolutely no business complaining about it, especially on a server with a respawn timer.
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