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Stealthkibbler - Illyall

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am
by Stealthkibbler

BYOND username:

Stealthkibbler

Banning admin:

IlyaIII

Where were you banned:

https://i.imgur.com/6aePJYx.png

Type of Ban:

Temporary

Duration of ban(if temp):

2 weeks

Reason for ban:

As your wonderful rules state: "The violation will always be seen in the context6 of events that came before it. Usually the responsbility lies with the creator of the situation." The situation in question was created by you and IH Operative, but in case of Operative that started to shoot you, they've used stun taser to which you've decided to answer with lethal plasma, and thats not a valid self defense. Just as resisting arrest while screaming in radio isn't a good thing to show either, especially when IH tried to treat your wounds before getting you anywhere else. In the end you've shown that you are able to at least stop writing in capital letters to explain the situation to IH around you but it was a bit too late to change anything. The whole situation spiraled out of control after that and you've played a major role in inciting to mutiny by constantly screaming in radio about IH that wants to kill you. It's less than a week from your previous ban for validhunting IH so that doesn't make a good picture of you. You have two weeks to think about it.

Your version of events:

My version of the events: I asked an AI to let me into cargo to get a fuhrer, I walked in and an Operative asked me what I was doing there but I didn't see his chat since I was blinded and not paying attention to chat, just focused on getting the fuhrer corpse, I leave cargo via the hallway that connects into disposal and delivery, I was quick enough to have left before the cargo door closed on itself. The Operative chased me out of cargo but I did not notice until I saw the martin beams hit the wall next to me, I upholstered my cassad and fired a shot at him, it connected and I tried to continue on my way to collect the fuhrer when he continued to pursue me. Someone else who was helping me ranch roaches during the round passed by and picked up the fuhrer and amidst this the OP came up the stairs from the hallway into the small section that has windows looking into the cargo shelf area. He fired lethal rifle rounds into me and thats when I fired back another cassad shot, injured, bleeding and in flashing red health I ran into the barge hallway and threw myself into a nearby locker, the Operative then with his lethal loaded rifle wielded in both hands comes down the hallway, knows I'm in the locker and started yelling at me. I didnt really trust him on account of one more rifle burst would have killed me but I also didnt want to fight him any further. I simply did the only thing I felt I could do, I told him I was blind but it was stuttered he responded with "bullshit" and refused to believe me, he kept yelling at me in all caps to get out of the locker, I still didn't trust him so I called for help in stutters over common that the operative is going to murder me.

Thats when the inspector who was Gray showed up along with 4 people who knew me and helped me with the roach ranching earlier in the round, one of the people in the crowd a player who I had never seen before quite literally saved my life after I took a lethal wire splicing shock in maint. This is when the Operative opened the locker, and not resisting and my cassad holstered he shoved me down and stun-gloved me, He instantly covered my mouth in-front of everyone, people in the crowd shouted to stop covering my mouth along with yelling at him that I was bleeding out from the lethal rounds. He took me to medical and on the way I kept trying to tell him that I'm blind, he kept responding with "bullshit", the crowd followed, about two thirds of them being people I had helped and had helped me in the round.

While in medical the operative treated my wounds and I kept engaging in the back and forth of telling him I was blind and he kept saying he doesn't believe me. I asked him to body scan me and he refused, it was at this moment when a changeling among the crowd began stinging people.

In a panic the Operative with the Inspector rushed me to the brig; at this moment I was legitimately convinced he was going to kill me, because of him covering my mouth, refusing to body scan me and not actually making an attempt or wanting to communicate to me. Thats when I yelled for help at the lobby, I said that they were going to silence me and much to my expectation; they did, they removed my radio and full-stripped me there and then. Thats when I could hear windows breaking from lobby, many of my friends followed and arrived at the lobby to breakin and recover me. Then in probably the most crucial part of everything going on the Operative elected to immediately execute me for "mutiny" a crime usually only reserved for Excelsiors, his explanation to the FO in the short 1 minute was "He mutinied", I never once asked people to cause harm, I never explicitly commanded them to overthrow command or IH as a whole, they did all that of their own volition, I simply said the words "Help me they are going to silence me" in common radio and in response to this they silenced me and then executed me not even 2 minutes later.

After the Operative threw me into the slime infested permabrig naked and handcuffed I ahelped saying that I was executed for a blue paragraph, because the initial infiltration I was initially chased for was because the AI let me in and due to a miscommunication. I then sent Gray a message in DMs about how I ended up causing another anti IH riot that killed IH, I wasn't squeemish to mention it, what I didnt expect was the colossal tantrum he threw, he simply responded to me by saying "are you reading dead chat" and then "fuck you", blocking me before I could even explain what happened. I didnt look at deadchat much and if I did say anything it was incredibly brief and I forgot what it was. I saw that the Operative was a player that has in the last week harassed me on a few accounts, one of which Reere had to tell them to and I quote "Shut the fuck up, nobody wants to listen to you", this is why I didnt read deadchat or made an effort to remember anything from it. I expected more harassment from this individual following what happened.

Gray then decided to punish the entire community as a whole, in a fit of uncontrolled rage he took down the server and made a big announcement. People were in Docks wondering wtf happened when I popped in to simply clarify that it was because Gray died and is kinda pissed for better or worse words. Gray then went on multiple tangents and spiels, despite having me blocked mentioning me about how awful of a person I am, about how he refuses to come back to the community until I'm banned and just generally being overtly toxic, He later deleted pretty much all of these messages. Amidst the en docks debacle the same operative and player decided to have a go at me. Chatlogs of him saying all the nasty stuff he did about me in achat and whatnot reached me pretty quickly, what with how crazy everything was. Despite this I tried to send him a message in dms to say sorry that it all upset him but I was still blocked, hesitant to say anything in docks in-front of the two people who were consistently throwing vitriol at me I swallowed my pride and mentioned Gray saying that if he didn't impulse block me the apology would have went through. No surprise I received more vitriol from said two individuals, one of which was the IH Operative mentioned before

Why you think you should be unbanned:

Forgive my pessimism but to be quite honest I dont expect to unbanned, I talked to a few staff prior to this appeal; one of which was the banning admin and I dont agree with this ban whatsoever, although I dont expect anyone to care what I think. I will still do my best to reconstruct my frustration into an explanation, this is why I dont agree with the ban-

1.The banning admin showed me logs entirely inaccurate to what happened, for example he said that I was never shot with lethals, I told him to check again and he surfaced logs that showed I was indeed shot with lethals, but the logs show I was shot before asking the AI to let me into Cargo which is awkward because the Operative didnt give chase to me until after I had entered and exited the shuttle Bay let alone interact with me. This lack of knowing the full context of what transpired and what lead up to the attack on IH seems to either be ignored or glossed over and in of itself is my main reason why this ban is unjustified, it is in my honest opinion a kneejerk ban in reaction to Grays outburst in order to haphazardly and desperately mend a broken wound; for better or worse analogy.

2. This ban is my second ever ban (third if you count a small 2 hour ban Gray gave me some time back) on Eris and its honestly one of the longest bans I've ever seen. I feel this is incredibly blown out of proportion, I dont think anyone should have been banned period, I mainly ahelped the Operative executed me because me trying to talk to him during the entire thing didnt work and this was someone who treats me like absolute vitriol in deadchat and ooc. There was zero chance this person was ever going to listen to me in this entire scenario, but still I wouldnt have wished a ban on him, I think it would create further resentment and wanted someone to mediate it.

3. I do believe the new IH vs Vagabond rule (To put it simply) is being enforced by Gray with way too heavy of what I would call an Iron Fist, I think his outburst is telling that he shovels too much responsibility onto himself recently what with the new influx of players and the anxiety that one player might sour the servers reputation. I can give multiple interactions I had with Gray where I simply showed him something funny I saw a player to do only for him to respond that he "had a talk with that player", I think hes perceiving things too harshly and I have not recieved this treatment from any other staff member on Eris, all of this from Gray is a first and it came with the new IH vs Vagabond rule that he announced. There is many other telling signs of him being way to stressed out that I've observed when hes jumped into voicechat and talked about Eris and his role as EN Sector Head but I will not go into detail out of respect for him.

4. More on the topic of the actual ban reason, in this case the entire context of the situation was very clearly not taken into account, as stated earlier in point number One and I will further elaborate on individual cases of this reflected in the ban reason.
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me being the creator of the situation is abstract because there were multiple antags that unlike my previous 24hr ban latched onto this one and clearly headed the breakin with no hesitation. Me saying "I need help, they are going to silence me" is not the same as "Rise up against IH and kill them all", other people, some of which were antags percieved that differently. I wasn't trying to start a riot, I was trying to not be killed by Ironhammer. Which by the way I never killed anybody in the entirety of that round, yet I was executed because other people turned my "Help me please" into a ticket to kill all of Ironhammer.
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Me firing back at the Operative part just completely ignores my attempts to negotiate with him after, it was very obvious I got scared and panicked when the Operative shot at me, I couldnt fully see everything going on with my screen and to be quite honest I was more focused on the fuhrer corpse than anything else at the time. I did not have any other weapon available so it was a kneejerk reaction.
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The screaming in radio part is completely dishonest, the first instance occurred while I was in the locker in flashing red health bleeding out was when I first said this operative is going to murder me, He was close enough to my locker that I saw him wielding the lethal loaded rifle and he was yelling at me in all caps. The second instant occurred on the way to brig because he refused to bodyscan me for the eye damage and the third occurred in the IH area because I was convinced he was going to kill me.
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Saying this is related to my other ban is egregious, in my other ban I quite literally physically lead people to IH brig, was the person who fired the first shot and ontop of that did infact kill someone that round(who happened to be a miner trying to kill someone who helped me previously in the round mind you.) This particular part of the ban reason is incredibly reaching for an additional reason to justify the 2 week ban time let alone the ban itself.

Extra notes:

More on the topic of the ban as a whole, the entire justification for the ban is shoddy and strewn about, it was so effortless for me to talk to the banning admin and in a minute find out he knew less about the actually ongoing of what happened from looking at logs than people who were bystanders during the arrest. I'd like to be optimistic and say its just a bad ban and shit happens, but with everything I mentioned earlier I would stress that this is very indicating that when you end up banning swathes of new players every few days because of a new rule, maybe that new rule doesn't fit with the current atmosphere of the game. If in the future when the antags are fleshed out and can contribute consistent and interesting conflict scenarios and interactions in the round then there would probably be less IH players who fervently go after people so far as to in my case persue me for a crime they thought I committed which could've easily been fixed if they just scrolled up in common radio a few lines to see me ask the AI to let me in; then maybe in that future the rule would fit nicely into place. As of now IH players get bored out of their fucking skulls and will jump at literally anything and persue it with frothing barbarity until they get their justice due regardless of if its fair or not to the other player.

I'm brazen enough to say this isn't an issue with players or rules in particular, its an issue with current content available to the server, forcing change in the community as a whole with this ironfisted throttling of players who dont adhere to your new rule is very reminiscnent of the HIGH RP servers Gray so solemly exclaims Eris will never become like. These interactions happen between Ironhammer and Vagabonds because the current Antags as mentioned before do not contribute enough conflict and interesting behaviour to the round and I'd be more than happy to go on a tangent about why each antag doesnt contribute enough conflict but thats well realised what with the alloted changes the roles will be getting.

Think for a moment and entertain such a scenario and environment, in a round where antags are actively and consistently providing conflict and interest in a round IH would be occupied and busy with persuing them to slip up with Vagabonds as often as they do. I've played enough Excel rounds to know that the moment IH hear about Excel anyone who is confirmed non Excel get the green pass of being ignored by IH, this presence of an active antagonist is what Eris lacks and shoehorning this sort of adminning into the server will not remedy the issue but create a barrier between staff and players who are trying to play the game. I've known Gray for years and all of a sudden two bans and he blocks me, hates everything about me and professes me the antichrist or something, I joke a bit but I think this sort of adminning goes to show the lasting impact and damage it would have on Eris. Its not healthy.


Re: Stealthkibbler - Illyall

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:09 am
by Teyren
The violation will always be seen in the context6 of events that came before it.

To give additional context from this incident from my part in it. My vagabond, Royce Khan, rolled as an antagonist traitor, bought four mind fryers, and seeked to get derail contract by standing in the hallway. After sometime, a vagabond, Lenny Balboni, transform stung Royce while he was walking by, revealing his nature. After this there was a period of irrelevant interaction, until Lenny screamed over the radio that Ironhammer is taking someone. He had a small cackle of fellow junk crows following him to the IH Lobby, a brief respite happened where the other vagabonds left (probably to get the First Officer, (or they just wanted to find something heavier to hit IH with)), Royce told Lenny that transform stinging him was a favor self-deprecatingly, and that he was behind him on this completely.

After Lenny did some more call-outs over the radio, Royce positioned himself across the room from him when Inspector "MiniSkirt" (not their name, but I don't recall) walked out. The Inspector then proceeded to do absolutely nothing to provoke us, probably coming out to talk since Lenny interacted with her before. But Changey-Lenny had different ideas of "interaction" this time around, pulling out some form of revolver, and placing a couple rounds into Inspector MiniSkirt before they ducked behind a wall. A gun fight then ensues between the both, with Royce backing up away from MiniSkirt, as Lenny presses them with one of the plethora of impromptu junk weapons. MiniSkirt gets a reload and presses on Lenny unloading their revolver, before Lenny smacks them down as he gets point-blanked. Both are downed in pain, Royce had left their Uplink on the entire waiting for their chance, and seeing the Changeling finally do most of the legwork he saw the opening for a coup de grâce. Energy sword materializing in Royce's hand, he stepped forward to both the Inspector and Lenny, dealing what I assume to be a death blow to MiniSkirt, and an accidental hit on Lenny, due likely to usual Vagabond incompetence. Within the milliseconds this is happening Royce re-positions in front of MiniSkirt when Operative Graham comes up the stairs from the Brig, the loud gunfight between MiniSkirt and Changey-Lenny must of put him on alert. Seeing Royce standing bloody and adjacent to some horizontal comrade, he opens the airlock and lets off a burst of "Sol-power"TM. The force of the hit causes Royce to stumble backwards, the saber-hobo attempts to close ground with him, but they just can't seem to move from the blow. Graham quickly re-positions, mag-dumping Royce then and there, in front of the other vagabonds who happened to return, taking a Traitor off of the Eris. Though not the Changeling, in the two seconds this event occurred, Lenny stands upright and closes with Graham. Not realizing which other persons were involved, he responded too slowly to this, and Lenny quite simply beats Graham to death. Lenny now armed with Brig access, Royce's mind fryer corpse giving everyone incessant breakdowns. Very few aren't confused left either standing in the IH Lobby, or behind the Lobby Lockdown the AI initiated trying to get in. The short battle in the IH Lobby is over, but not the mutiny.

These parts after aren't as directly relevant to the incident, but does give further insight to how much order had thusly collapsed after this.

As the mutinous mob gathered in front of the Brig entrance, the dead IH laying looted behind them, they found it bolted by SAM (Sour Antagonist re-Mover). The vagabonds, consisted of an unsorted mess, likely only thinking of the munitions ahead of them. Among that mess was an IronHammer Marshal who looted just as fervently as their non-aligned partners. During this interesting scene there was even more confused bitching from various dead players, from things such as thinking Royce was a Marshal, to it being a Cult Round. All the while the Commander had awoken to this scene, blocked off from their office, and tools of control. The mob being a goalless band of thieves soon dispersed to wherever Vagabonds vanish off to, leaving Lenny alone in the Brig as the Commander regained access to it. The firefight that ensued was long and fierce, the Commander not knowing of his power gloves, or forgetting, and slowly losing the brawl. He decides to abscond towards his office, opening the Sky Driver's showcase, after tactically running up and down the stairs four times, he finds his shot. Lenny was put down, but a changeling is never down for long, a fact they were all unaware of, and something he can use to his clear advantage. During this brief intermission of the Commander calling for help, the First Officer enters the Brig followed by a motley sort of Vagabonds and persons who just looted the Brig few minutes ago. They all arrived to Lenny transforming himself into a defenseless monkey before them all, after a brief exclamation of, "He's a changeling!" This newly arrived crowd shortly transforms Lenny the Primate's head into giblets via their boots. Of course you'd think this would be the end of the mutiny, but alas yet another Vagabond was far off from the First Section by this time, prowling the Third Section near the Medbay.

At the Medbay, this Vagabond "Rando" in IH armor starts blasting the Exultant and a newly arrived Operative Finlay, who returns fire. An IH Marshal (unrelated to the different IH Marshal looting the armory with the mutineers) sees this, runs in with an STS, and burst decaps the Exultant who was trying to hide behind the sleepers. Finlay begins screaming that the Marshal is the changeling, not him, and begins firing on the Marshal. The Rando then beats the operative down unto the floor. The Rando and the Marshal then begin blasting each other with full auto, missing nearly every shot, until enough strikes finally brings the Marshal down for the count. The Operative manages back to his feet, only to begin pummeling "The Rando" with a small cell that was on the ground. Not very effective, Rando kills the Operative after another short exchange, limping out from the Medbay. Rando screams for help over the radio as he heads for the pod, just as the Commander and First Officer rushes past them. Entering into the scene, they identify the Marshal laying ontop of their STS as the probable cause. The First Officer grabs and slits the gasping Marshal's throat before absconding back to the pods. There were no antagonists during this exchange in Medbay, just unbridled Eris roleplay.

Re: Stealthkibbler - Illyall

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:46 pm
by Gray
Ilya asked me to reply despite the fact that I wanted to stay as far away from this as possible. Since you're using me as a reason for your ban when I wasn't even involved in the decision, I am going to dissect your appeal piece by piece.
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am My version of the events: I asked an AI to let me into cargo to get a fuhrer, I walked in and an Operative asked me what I was doing there but I didn't see his chat since I was blinded and not paying attention to chat, just focused on getting the fuhrer corpse, I leave cargo via the hallway that connects into disposal and delivery, I was quick enough to have left before the cargo door closed on itself. The Operative chased me out of cargo but I did not notice until I saw the martin beams hit the wall next to me, I upholstered my cassad and fired a shot at him, it connected and I tried to continue on my way to collect the fuhrer when he continued to pursue me. Someone else who was helping me ranch roaches during the round passed by and picked up the fuhrer and amidst this the OP came up the stairs from the hallway into the small section that has windows looking into the cargo shelf area. He fired lethal rifle rounds into me and thats when I fired back another cassad shot, injured, bleeding and in flashing red health I ran into the barge hallway and threw myself into a nearby locker, the Operative then with his lethal loaded rifle wielded in both hands comes down the hallway, knows I'm in the locker and started yelling at me. I didnt really trust him on account of one more rifle burst would have killed me but I also didnt want to fight him any further. I simply did the only thing I felt I could do, I told him I was blind but it was stuttered he responded with "bullshit" and refused to believe me, he kept yelling at me in all caps to get out of the locker, I still didn't trust him so I called for help in stutters over common that the operative is going to murder me.
So you know you were being shot by non-lethal tasers and yet you fired lethals back at the operative.
Your character being blind does not mean you cannot see chat, especially considering you were just talking with the AI. If you could see the fuhrer's corpse then you could also see the Operative. Also means you clearly saw him pointing at you.
I also love how you try to direct the blame on the Operative for using lethals on you when you used lethals first.

Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am Thats when the inspector who was Gray showed up along with 4 people who knew me and helped me with the roach ranching earlier in the round, one of the people in the crowd a player who I had never seen before quite literally saved my life after I took a lethal wire splicing shock in maint. This is when the Operative opened the locker, and not resisting and my cassad holstered he shoved me down and stun-gloved me, He instantly covered my mouth in-front of everyone, people in the crowd shouted to stop covering my mouth along with yelling at him that I was bleeding out from the lethal rounds. He took me to medical and on the way I kept trying to tell him that I'm blind, he kept responding with "bullshit", the crowd followed, about two thirds of them being people I had helped and had helped me in the round.
I'm not a fan of covering the mouth personally but I can see why he did it.
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am While in medical the operative treated my wounds and I kept engaging in the back and forth of telling him I was blind and he kept saying he doesn't believe me. I asked him to body scan me and he refused, it was at this moment when a changeling among the crowd began stinging people.

In a panic the Operative with the Inspector rushed me to the brig; at this moment I was legitimately convinced he was going to kill me, because of him covering my mouth, refusing to body scan me and not actually making an attempt or wanting to communicate to me. Thats when I yelled for help at the lobby, I said that they were going to silence me and much to my expectation; they did, they removed my radio and full-stripped me there and then. Thats when I could hear windows breaking from lobby, many of my friends followed and arrived at the lobby to breakin and recover me. Then in probably the most crucial part of everything going on the Operative elected to immediately execute me for "mutiny" a crime usually only reserved for Excelsiors, his explanation to the FO in the short 1 minute was "He mutinied", I never once asked people to cause harm, I never explicitly commanded them to overthrow command or IH as a whole, they did all that of their own volition, I simply said the words "Help me they are going to silence me" in common radio and in response to this they silenced me and then executed me not even 2 minutes later.
The operative wasn't communicating with you because any attempt of communication was you screaming on the radio that you're going to be murdered. Had you just shut up and got tased for infiltration then none of this would have happened. Instead, you decided to shoot lethals back at the operative, scream about murder from the start of you encounter with the Operative to the end of it and never attempt to communicate until your headset was off you and you were isolated away from your friends.
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am After the Operative threw me into the slime infested permabrig naked and handcuffed I ahelped saying that I was executed for a blue paragraph, because the initial infiltration I was initially chased for was because the AI let me in and due to a miscommunication. I then sent Gray a message in DMs about how I ended up causing another anti IH riot that killed IH, I wasn't squeemish to mention it, what I didnt expect was the colossal tantrum he threw, he simply responded to me by saying "are you reading dead chat" and then "fuck you", blocking me before I could even explain what happened. I didnt look at deadchat much and if I did say anything it was incredibly brief and I forgot what it was. I saw that the Operative was a player that has in the last week harassed me on a few accounts, one of which Reere had to tell them to and I quote "Shut the fuck up, nobody wants to listen to you", this is why I didnt read deadchat or made an effort to remember anything from it. I expected more harassment from this individual following what happened.
I was pissed off at you because you came to my DMs all smug like telling me 'gray i started another riot'. So you clearly know it was your fault and it was your actions that lead to this. I blocked you because I hated both you and the Operative for ruining my round. The only thing I did wrong was believing you when you tried to pin the blame on the operative when he did what he had to.
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am Gray then decided to punish the entire community as a whole, in a fit of uncontrolled rage he took down the server and made a big announcement. People were in Docks wondering wtf happened when I popped in to simply clarify that it was because Gray died and is kinda pissed for better or worse words. Gray then went on multiple tangents and spiels, despite having me blocked mentioning me about how awful of a person I am, about how he refuses to come back to the community until I'm banned and just generally being overtly toxic, He later deleted pretty much all of these messages. Amidst the en docks debacle the same operative and player decided to have a go at me. Chatlogs of him saying all the nasty stuff he did about me in achat and whatnot reached me pretty quickly, what with how crazy everything was. Despite this I tried to send him a message in dms to say sorry that it all upset him but I was still blocked, hesitant to say anything in docks in-front of the two people who were consistently throwing vitriol at me I swallowed my pride and mentioned Gray saying that if he didn't impulse block me the apology would have went through. No surprise I received more vitriol from said two individuals, one of which was the IH Operative mentioned before
This really has absolutely nothing to do with the ban and is just more blame shifting in the direction away from you. Me shutting the server down was due to the lack of admins and the fact that I was involved in something that needed admins. It had absolutely nothing to do with you. Even in my announcement I say that the server will go up once admins were around. I later realized this won't work. I did not delete any of my messages in En_docks but I did delete my announcement. I did not talk shit about you in admin chat and I will even take screenshots to prove it. You can also ask any admin friends you have to confirm them.

Here's screenshots of the two main admin chats during the period after the event. You were never brought up once until you made the ban appeal. Since the ban appeal gives us a warning on discord.


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Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am Forgive my pessimism but to be quite honest I dont expect to unbanned, I talked to a few staff prior to this appeal; one of which was the banning admin and I dont agree with this ban whatsoever, although I dont expect anyone to care what I think. I will still do my best to reconstruct my frustration into an explanation, this is why I dont agree with the ban-
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am 1.The banning admin showed me logs entirely inaccurate to what happened, for example he said that I was never shot with lethals, I told him to check again and he surfaced logs that showed I was indeed shot with lethals, but the logs show I was shot before asking the AI to let me into Cargo which is awkward because the Operative didnt give chase to me until after I had entered and exited the shuttle Bay let alone interact with me. This lack of knowing the full context of what transpired and what lead up to the attack on IH seems to either be ignored or glossed over and in of itself is my main reason why this ban is unjustified, it is in my honest opinion a kneejerk ban in reaction to Grays outburst in order to haphazardly and desperately mend a broken wound; for better or worse analogy.
The ban is not a kneejerk reaction and Ilya does not even know what I said in en_docks about not coming back until you're banned. The facts are that you shot the operative with lethals first and screamed bloody murder when they shot you back. This isn't /tg/. You're the cause of the round going to shit and any non-antags that got to go on a murder spree.
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am 2. This ban is my second ever ban (third if you count a small 2 hour ban Gray gave me some time back) on Eris and its honestly one of the longest bans I've ever seen. I feel this is incredibly blown out of proportion, I dont think anyone should have been banned period, I mainly ahelped the Operative executed me because me trying to talk to him during the entire thing didnt work and this was someone who treats me like absolute vitriol in deadchat and ooc. There was zero chance this person was ever going to listen to me in this entire scenario, but still I wouldnt have wished a ban on him, I think it would create further resentment and wanted someone to mediate it.
Bans are exponentially longer when you repeat the same offense that you were banned for just 5 days ago. I had no hand in deciding the ban length.
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am 3. I do believe the new IH vs Vagabond rule (To put it simply) is being enforced by Gray with way too heavy of what I would call an Iron Fist, I think his outburst is telling that he shovels too much responsibility onto himself recently what with the new influx of players and the anxiety that one player might sour the servers reputation. I can give multiple interactions I had with Gray where I simply showed him something funny I saw a player to do only for him to respond that he "had a talk with that player", I think hes perceiving things too harshly and I have not recieved this treatment from any other staff member on Eris, all of this from Gray is a first and it came with the new IH vs Vagabond rule that he announced. There is many other telling signs of him being way to stressed out that I've observed when hes jumped into voicechat and talked about Eris and his role as EN Sector Head but I will not go into detail out of respect for him.
I don't see how this has anything to do with unbanning you. I was not involved in banning you at all.
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am 4. More on the topic of the actual ban reason, in this case the entire context of the situation was very clearly not taken into account, as stated earlier in point number One and I will further elaborate on individual cases of this reflected in the ban reason.
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am me being the creator of the situation is abstract because there were multiple antags that unlike my previous 24hr ban latched onto this one and clearly headed the breakin with no hesitation. Me saying "I need help, they are going to silence me" is not the same as "Rise up against IH and kill them all", other people, some of which were antags percieved that differently. I wasn't trying to start a riot, I was trying to not be killed by Ironhammer. Which by the way I never killed anybody in the entirety of that round, yet I was executed because other people turned my "Help me please" into a ticket to kill all of Ironhammer.
Had you not fired lethals at the operative then we won't be here. Thus, everything happened because of you. The antags took advantage of it maybe.
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am Me firing back at the Operative part just completely ignores my attempts to negotiate with him after, it was very obvious I got scared and panicked when the Operative shot at me, I couldnt fully see everything going on with my screen and to be quite honest I was more focused on the fuhrer corpse than anything else at the time. I did not have any other weapon available so it was a kneejerk reaction.
The sound of a taser and the appearance of a taser beam are as unique as they can be. The appearance of an IH operative is as blue as it can get. If you could see a fuhrer then you could see the operative.
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am The screaming in radio part is completely dishonest, the first instance occurred while I was in the locker in flashing red health bleeding out was when I first said this operative is going to murder me, He was close enough to my locker that I saw him wielding the lethal loaded rifle and he was yelling at me in all caps. The second instant occurred on the way to brig because he refused to bodyscan me for the eye damage and the third occurred in the IH area because I was convinced he was going to kill me.
The operative told you to get down on the ground and there won't be any harm. You didn't comply. It's really cut and dry.
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am Saying this is related to my other ban is egregious, in my other ban I quite literally physically lead people to IH brig, was the person who fired the first shot and ontop of that did infact kill someone that round(who happened to be a miner trying to kill someone who helped me previously in the round mind you.) This particular part of the ban reason is incredibly reaching for an additional reason to justify the 2 week ban time let alone the ban itself.
There is nothing 'reaching' in this ban. You incited a riot because you shot lethals at an IH operative and continued to resist even after you realized it's an IH operative.(that's assuming you didn't realize it form the beginning)
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am Extra notes:More on the topic of the ban as a whole, the entire justification for the ban is shoddy and strewn about, it was so effortless for me to talk to the banning admin and in a minute find out he knew less about the actually ongoing of what happened from looking at logs than people who were bystanders during the arrest. I'd like to be optimistic and say its just a bad ban and shit happens, but with everything I mentioned earlier I would stress that this is very indicating that when you end up banning swathes of new players every few days because of a new rule, maybe that new rule doesn't fit with the current atmosphere of the game. If in the future when the antags are fleshed out and can contribute consistent and interesting conflict scenarios and interactions in the round then there would probably be less IH players who fervently go after people so far as to in my case persue me for a crime they thought I committed which could've easily been fixed if they just scrolled up in common radio a few lines to see me ask the AI to let me in; then maybe in that future the rule would fit nicely into place. As of now IH players get bored out of their fucking skulls and will jump at literally anything and persue it with frothing barbarity until they get their justice due regardless of if its fair or not to the other player.
More blame shifting and trying to argue that nothing was your fault.
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am I'm brazen enough to say this isn't an issue with players or rules in particular, its an issue with current content available to the server, forcing change in the community as a whole with this ironfisted throttling of players who dont adhere to your new rule is very reminiscnent of the HIGH RP servers Gray so solemly exclaims Eris will never become like. These interactions happen between Ironhammer and Vagabonds because the current Antags as mentioned before do not contribute enough conflict and interesting behaviour to the round and I'd be more than happy to go on a tangent about why each antag doesnt contribute enough conflict but thats well realised what with the alloted changes the roles will be getting.
ok
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am Think for a moment and entertain such a scenario and environment, in a round where antags are actively and consistently providing conflict and interest in a round IH would be occupied and busy with persuing them to slip up with Vagabonds as often as they do. I've played enough Excel rounds to know that the moment IH hear about Excel anyone who is confirmed non Excel get the green pass of being ignored by IH, this presence of an active antagonist is what Eris lacks and shoehorning this sort of adminning into the server will not remedy the issue but create a barrier between staff and players who are trying to play the game. I've known Gray for years and all of a sudden two bans and he blocks me, hates everything about me and professes me the antichrist or something, I joke a bit but I think this sort of adminning goes to show the lasting impact and damage it would have on Eris. Its not healthy.
I don't need advice from a toxic manipulative liar. Thanks. Nothing is being shoehorned.

To conclude:I don't see why my name is brought up in here other than the fact that I was the inspector who tased you and had you taken to medbay. I was also the first to die as a consequence of your actions. I had absolutely nothing to do with your ban and anything I told Ilya is akin to a player ahelping. Ilya did all the logdiving himself and he did not miss any context. The logs all made sense. You're just lying here and digging yourself in a deeper hole.

I have screenshots that I can post of the conversation I had with Ilya. I did not influence your ban in any way shape or form. You're banned for breaking a rule and that rule is clearly quoted in your ban reason. I'll leave it to Ilya now.

Re: Stealthkibbler - Illyall

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:10 pm
by amm101902
Since this post is starting to go down an unfortunate path, i figured I'd chime in with something. I'm not going to comment on the events of the round and my opinions of it as I am Stealth's friend, but what i want to talk about is how stealth and gray are starting to move towards name calling and assuming what the other is doing and the intent behind their actions.

I want to bring up Hanlon's razor. Hanlon's razor is an aphorism, "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" Essentially I'm trying to say to both of you stop assuming what the other was thinking or trying to do and talk about what did occur. here is a wonderful picture illustrating what I'm talking about.
Image
It looks like Stealth misunderstood Gray's role in this ban. He assumed based on you shutting down the server and saying you didn't want to come back until he was banned, that you influenced him being banned. You have now clarified the situation and say this is wrong, and I believe you. Stealth brought up your assumed role in his ban several times, and i think its important to understand that the most probably explanation is that this is not some manipulative action to discredit Gray's character, but a misunderstanding and jumping to conclusions. Based on his inclusion of Gray in the ban appeal, it looks like Gray has taken offense to Stealth's assumption about his actions and role in this. This is understandable, nobody like to have words put in their mouth, actions that didn't occur attributed to them, etc. Gray, please try to understand that stealth got ahead of himself and accused you of things wrongly, not because he wants to "Toxicly Manipulate" the situation, but because he made a mistake. Please try to avoid accusatory drama guys and focus on discussing the wonderful clusterfuck of a round that brought us this situation.
Thanks <3

Re: Stealthkibbler - Illyall

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:15 pm
by Stealthkibbler
gray wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:46 pm Ilya asked me to reply despite the fact that I wanted to stay as far away from this as possible. Since you're using me as a reason for your ban when I wasn't even involved in the decision, I am going to dissect your appeal piece by piece.
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am My version of the events: I asked an AI to let me into cargo to get a fuhrer, I walked in and an Operative asked me what I was doing there but I didn't see his chat since I was blinded and not paying attention to chat, just focused on getting the fuhrer corpse, I leave cargo via the hallway that connects into disposal and delivery, I was quick enough to have left before the cargo door closed on itself. The Operative chased me out of cargo but I did not notice until I saw the martin beams hit the wall next to me, I upholstered my cassad and fired a shot at him, it connected and I tried to continue on my way to collect the fuhrer when he continued to pursue me. Someone else who was helping me ranch roaches during the round passed by and picked up the fuhrer and amidst this the OP came up the stairs from the hallway into the small section that has windows looking into the cargo shelf area. He fired lethal rifle rounds into me and thats when I fired back another cassad shot, injured, bleeding and in flashing red health I ran into the barge hallway and threw myself into a nearby locker, the Operative then with his lethal loaded rifle wielded in both hands comes down the hallway, knows I'm in the locker and started yelling at me. I didnt really trust him on account of one more rifle burst would have killed me but I also didnt want to fight him any further. I simply did the only thing I felt I could do, I told him I was blind but it was stuttered he responded with "bullshit" and refused to believe me, he kept yelling at me in all caps to get out of the locker, I still didn't trust him so I called for help in stutters over common that the operative is going to murder me.
So you know you were being shot by non-lethal tasers and yet you fired lethals back at the operative.
Your character being blind does not mean you cannot see chat, especially considering you were just talking with the AI. If you could see the fuhrer's corpse then you could also see the Operative. Also means you clearly saw him pointing at you.
I also love how you try to direct the blame on the Operative for using lethals on you when you used lethals first.

Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am Thats when the inspector who was Gray showed up along with 4 people who knew me and helped me with the roach ranching earlier in the round, one of the people in the crowd a player who I had never seen before quite literally saved my life after I took a lethal wire splicing shock in maint. This is when the Operative opened the locker, and not resisting and my cassad holstered he shoved me down and stun-gloved me, He instantly covered my mouth in-front of everyone, people in the crowd shouted to stop covering my mouth along with yelling at him that I was bleeding out from the lethal rounds. He took me to medical and on the way I kept trying to tell him that I'm blind, he kept responding with "bullshit", the crowd followed, about two thirds of them being people I had helped and had helped me in the round.
I'm not a fan of covering the mouth personally but I can see why he did it.
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am While in medical the operative treated my wounds and I kept engaging in the back and forth of telling him I was blind and he kept saying he doesn't believe me. I asked him to body scan me and he refused, it was at this moment when a changeling among the crowd began stinging people.

In a panic the Operative with the Inspector rushed me to the brig; at this moment I was legitimately convinced he was going to kill me, because of him covering my mouth, refusing to body scan me and not actually making an attempt or wanting to communicate to me. Thats when I yelled for help at the lobby, I said that they were going to silence me and much to my expectation; they did, they removed my radio and full-stripped me there and then. Thats when I could hear windows breaking from lobby, many of my friends followed and arrived at the lobby to breakin and recover me. Then in probably the most crucial part of everything going on the Operative elected to immediately execute me for "mutiny" a crime usually only reserved for Excelsiors, his explanation to the FO in the short 1 minute was "He mutinied", I never once asked people to cause harm, I never explicitly commanded them to overthrow command or IH as a whole, they did all that of their own volition, I simply said the words "Help me they are going to silence me" in common radio and in response to this they silenced me and then executed me not even 2 minutes later.
The operative wasn't communicating with you because any attempt of communication was you screaming on the radio that you're going to be murdered. Had you just shut up and got tased for infiltration then none of this would have happened. Instead, you decided to shoot lethals back at the operative, scream about murder from the start of you encounter with the Operative to the end of it and never attempt to communicate until your headset was off you and you were isolated away from your friends.
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am After the Operative threw me into the slime infested permabrig naked and handcuffed I ahelped saying that I was executed for a blue paragraph, because the initial infiltration I was initially chased for was because the AI let me in and due to a miscommunication. I then sent Gray a message in DMs about how I ended up causing another anti IH riot that killed IH, I wasn't squeemish to mention it, what I didnt expect was the colossal tantrum he threw, he simply responded to me by saying "are you reading dead chat" and then "fuck you", blocking me before I could even explain what happened. I didnt look at deadchat much and if I did say anything it was incredibly brief and I forgot what it was. I saw that the Operative was a player that has in the last week harassed me on a few accounts, one of which Reere had to tell them to and I quote "Shut the fuck up, nobody wants to listen to you", this is why I didnt read deadchat or made an effort to remember anything from it. I expected more harassment from this individual following what happened.
I was pissed off at you because you came to my DMs all smug like telling me 'gray i started another riot'. So you clearly know it was your fault and it was your actions that lead to this. I blocked you because I hated both you and the Operative for ruining my round. The only thing I did wrong was believing you when you tried to pin the blame on the operative when he did what he had to.
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am Gray then decided to punish the entire community as a whole, in a fit of uncontrolled rage he took down the server and made a big announcement. People were in Docks wondering wtf happened when I popped in to simply clarify that it was because Gray died and is kinda pissed for better or worse words. Gray then went on multiple tangents and spiels, despite having me blocked mentioning me about how awful of a person I am, about how he refuses to come back to the community until I'm banned and just generally being overtly toxic, He later deleted pretty much all of these messages. Amidst the en docks debacle the same operative and player decided to have a go at me. Chatlogs of him saying all the nasty stuff he did about me in achat and whatnot reached me pretty quickly, what with how crazy everything was. Despite this I tried to send him a message in dms to say sorry that it all upset him but I was still blocked, hesitant to say anything in docks in-front of the two people who were consistently throwing vitriol at me I swallowed my pride and mentioned Gray saying that if he didn't impulse block me the apology would have went through. No surprise I received more vitriol from said two individuals, one of which was the IH Operative mentioned before
This really has absolutely nothing to do with the ban and is just more blame shifting in the direction away from you. Me shutting the server down was due to the lack of admins and the fact that I was involved in something that needed admins. It had absolutely nothing to do with you. Even in my announcement I say that the server will go up once admins were around. I later realized this won't work. I did not delete any of my messages in En_docks but I did delete my announcement. I did not talk shit about you in admin chat and I will even take screenshots to prove it. You can also ask any admin friends you have to confirm them.

Here's screenshots of the two main admin chats during the period after the event. You were never brought up once until you made the ban appeal. Since the ban appeal gives us a warning on discord.


Image
Image
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am Forgive my pessimism but to be quite honest I dont expect to unbanned, I talked to a few staff prior to this appeal; one of which was the banning admin and I dont agree with this ban whatsoever, although I dont expect anyone to care what I think. I will still do my best to reconstruct my frustration into an explanation, this is why I dont agree with the ban-
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am 1.The banning admin showed me logs entirely inaccurate to what happened, for example he said that I was never shot with lethals, I told him to check again and he surfaced logs that showed I was indeed shot with lethals, but the logs show I was shot before asking the AI to let me into Cargo which is awkward because the Operative didnt give chase to me until after I had entered and exited the shuttle Bay let alone interact with me. This lack of knowing the full context of what transpired and what lead up to the attack on IH seems to either be ignored or glossed over and in of itself is my main reason why this ban is unjustified, it is in my honest opinion a kneejerk ban in reaction to Grays outburst in order to haphazardly and desperately mend a broken wound; for better or worse analogy.
The ban is not a kneejerk reaction and Ilya does not even know what I said in en_docks about not coming back until you're banned. The facts are that you shot the operative with lethals first and screamed bloody murder when they shot you back. This isn't /tg/. You're the cause of the round going to shit and any non-antags that got to go on a murder spree.
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am 2. This ban is my second ever ban (third if you count a small 2 hour ban Gray gave me some time back) on Eris and its honestly one of the longest bans I've ever seen. I feel this is incredibly blown out of proportion, I dont think anyone should have been banned period, I mainly ahelped the Operative executed me because me trying to talk to him during the entire thing didnt work and this was someone who treats me like absolute vitriol in deadchat and ooc. There was zero chance this person was ever going to listen to me in this entire scenario, but still I wouldnt have wished a ban on him, I think it would create further resentment and wanted someone to mediate it.
Bans are exponentially longer when you repeat the same offense that you were banned for just 5 days ago. I had no hand in deciding the ban length.
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am 3. I do believe the new IH vs Vagabond rule (To put it simply) is being enforced by Gray with way too heavy of what I would call an Iron Fist, I think his outburst is telling that he shovels too much responsibility onto himself recently what with the new influx of players and the anxiety that one player might sour the servers reputation. I can give multiple interactions I had with Gray where I simply showed him something funny I saw a player to do only for him to respond that he "had a talk with that player", I think hes perceiving things too harshly and I have not recieved this treatment from any other staff member on Eris, all of this from Gray is a first and it came with the new IH vs Vagabond rule that he announced. There is many other telling signs of him being way to stressed out that I've observed when hes jumped into voicechat and talked about Eris and his role as EN Sector Head but I will not go into detail out of respect for him.
I don't see how this has anything to do with unbanning you. I was not involved in banning you at all.
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am 4. More on the topic of the actual ban reason, in this case the entire context of the situation was very clearly not taken into account, as stated earlier in point number One and I will further elaborate on individual cases of this reflected in the ban reason.
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am me being the creator of the situation is abstract because there were multiple antags that unlike my previous 24hr ban latched onto this one and clearly headed the breakin with no hesitation. Me saying "I need help, they are going to silence me" is not the same as "Rise up against IH and kill them all", other people, some of which were antags percieved that differently. I wasn't trying to start a riot, I was trying to not be killed by Ironhammer. Which by the way I never killed anybody in the entirety of that round, yet I was executed because other people turned my "Help me please" into a ticket to kill all of Ironhammer.
Had you not fired lethals at the operative then we won't be here. Thus, everything happened because of you. The antags took advantage of it maybe.
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am Me firing back at the Operative part just completely ignores my attempts to negotiate with him after, it was very obvious I got scared and panicked when the Operative shot at me, I couldnt fully see everything going on with my screen and to be quite honest I was more focused on the fuhrer corpse than anything else at the time. I did not have any other weapon available so it was a kneejerk reaction.
The sound of a taser and the appearance of a taser beam are as unique as they can be. The appearance of an IH operative is as blue as it can get. If you could see a fuhrer then you could see the operative.
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am The screaming in radio part is completely dishonest, the first instance occurred while I was in the locker in flashing red health bleeding out was when I first said this operative is going to murder me, He was close enough to my locker that I saw him wielding the lethal loaded rifle and he was yelling at me in all caps. The second instant occurred on the way to brig because he refused to bodyscan me for the eye damage and the third occurred in the IH area because I was convinced he was going to kill me.
The operative told you to get down on the ground and there won't be any harm. You didn't comply. It's really cut and dry.
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am Saying this is related to my other ban is egregious, in my other ban I quite literally physically lead people to IH brig, was the person who fired the first shot and ontop of that did infact kill someone that round(who happened to be a miner trying to kill someone who helped me previously in the round mind you.) This particular part of the ban reason is incredibly reaching for an additional reason to justify the 2 week ban time let alone the ban itself.
There is nothing 'reaching' in this ban. You incited a riot because you shot lethals at an IH operative and continued to resist even after you realized it's an IH operative.(that's assuming you didn't realize it form the beginning)
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am Extra notes:More on the topic of the ban as a whole, the entire justification for the ban is shoddy and strewn about, it was so effortless for me to talk to the banning admin and in a minute find out he knew less about the actually ongoing of what happened from looking at logs than people who were bystanders during the arrest. I'd like to be optimistic and say its just a bad ban and shit happens, but with everything I mentioned earlier I would stress that this is very indicating that when you end up banning swathes of new players every few days because of a new rule, maybe that new rule doesn't fit with the current atmosphere of the game. If in the future when the antags are fleshed out and can contribute consistent and interesting conflict scenarios and interactions in the round then there would probably be less IH players who fervently go after people so far as to in my case persue me for a crime they thought I committed which could've easily been fixed if they just scrolled up in common radio a few lines to see me ask the AI to let me in; then maybe in that future the rule would fit nicely into place. As of now IH players get bored out of their fucking skulls and will jump at literally anything and persue it with frothing barbarity until they get their justice due regardless of if its fair or not to the other player.
More blame shifting and trying to argue that nothing was your fault.
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am I'm brazen enough to say this isn't an issue with players or rules in particular, its an issue with current content available to the server, forcing change in the community as a whole with this ironfisted throttling of players who dont adhere to your new rule is very reminiscnent of the HIGH RP servers Gray so solemly exclaims Eris will never become like. These interactions happen between Ironhammer and Vagabonds because the current Antags as mentioned before do not contribute enough conflict and interesting behaviour to the round and I'd be more than happy to go on a tangent about why each antag doesnt contribute enough conflict but thats well realised what with the alloted changes the roles will be getting.
ok
Stealthkibbler wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am Think for a moment and entertain such a scenario and environment, in a round where antags are actively and consistently providing conflict and interest in a round IH would be occupied and busy with persuing them to slip up with Vagabonds as often as they do. I've played enough Excel rounds to know that the moment IH hear about Excel anyone who is confirmed non Excel get the green pass of being ignored by IH, this presence of an active antagonist is what Eris lacks and shoehorning this sort of adminning into the server will not remedy the issue but create a barrier between staff and players who are trying to play the game. I've known Gray for years and all of a sudden two bans and he blocks me, hates everything about me and professes me the antichrist or something, I joke a bit but I think this sort of adminning goes to show the lasting impact and damage it would have on Eris. Its not healthy.
I don't need advice from a toxic manipulative liar. Thanks. Nothing is being shoehorned.

To conclude:I don't see why my name is brought up in here other than the fact that I was the inspector who tased you and had you taken to medbay. I was also the first to die as a consequence of your actions. I had absolutely nothing to do with your ban and anything I told Ilya is akin to a player ahelping. Ilya did all the logdiving himself and he did not miss any context. The logs all made sense. You're just lying here and digging yourself in a deeper hole.

I have screenshots that I can post of the conversation I had with Ilya. I did not influence your ban in any way shape or form. You're banned for breaking a rule and that rule is clearly quoted in your ban reason. I'll leave it to Ilya now.
I say all of this with genuine care for a community and server that I enjoy playing on and want to see grow and become better and a real concern for the stress that you are putting on yourself. I explain everything I can from my perspective with complete sincerity and you respond by announcing how you will dissect my appeal like my opinion is some sickly abomination, you skimmed over multiple stuff that you quote wherein your quotes are already contradicted by what you are quoting and you top it all off by saying I'm a manipulative liar.

I had every right to believe that you had a hand in my ban what with everything that went on and I'm sorry that wasn't the case but your conclusion to all of this is to demonize me, I'm sorry if you took anything I said as an insult but me speaking about your tantrum isn't toned as an insult, its stated as what I perceived as fact. Its the same with the discord message, I didnt know how to tell you otherwise, i just said it how it was, but YOU were the one that said "fuck you" and blocked me before I could tell you what happened.

https://i.imgur.com/AkaUmOo.png

You really do need to chill out Gray, you went from being a friend of mine to proclaiming me the worst person you know over two deaths in a 2d spaceman game. Like just read that out yourself and look at everything you said, you say I'm toxic but most of these quotes you made is just unrestrained vitriol against me, I'm not saying you are a toxic person but this reaction of yours and attitude towards me and everything that you're saying is. I've never seen this behavior from you ever which is why it concerns me.

As for the ban itself I still don't agree with it for the various reasons stated in my appeal, but the strongest one being that the very first thing stated in that ban reason is that full context matters, yet when I talked to Illya he knew less about what had happened than some of the normal players who had showed up after the shots were fired with the IH OP. These quotes by Gray do the same, they ignore the full context, I dont believe the ban is justified whatsoever just on this alone and thats not including my other reasons.

Re: Stealthkibbler - Illyall

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:19 pm
by AncientV25
It's not about whether or not you believe the ban is justified, it's about whether or not -we- believe the ban is justified.
Let's establish a sequence of events starting from the point where your behavior started conflict and ended with your ban.

You specifically said 'AI OPEN'. The AI opened the door. You were accosted by the Operative. When you refused to respond, they tried to tase you.
Your response was to shoot them with a lethal weapon. Their response was to continue shooting at you with the martin and attempting to stunglove you.

[01:36:55] b70-dLvB SAY: Melanie Moore/Stealthkibbler : AI open
[01:37:10] b70-dLvB SAY: Operative Graham/ : Are you for real
etc etc etc until conflict --
[01:37:22] b70-dLvB ATTACK: /(Braylon Graham) shot (/obj/item/projectile/beam/stun) Stealthkibbler/(Melanie Moore) (INTENT: HELP)
[01:37:26] b70-dLvB ATTACK: Stealthkibbler/(Melanie Moore) shot (/obj/item/projectile/plasma) /(Braylon Graham) (INTENT: HELP)
[01:37:26] b70-dLvB EMOTE: Melanie Moore/Stealthkibbler : screams!
[01:37:26] b70-dLvB ATTACK: /(Braylon Graham) stunned Stealthkibbler/(Melanie Moore) with the FS Power Glove.
[01:37:26] b70-dLvB ATTACK: /(Braylon Graham) disarmed Melanie Moore (stealthkibbler)
[01:37:27] b70-dLvB ATTACK: Stealthkibbler/(Melanie Moore) shot (/obj/item/projectile/plasma) /(Braylon Graham) (INTENT: HELP)

When you get out of combat range, the operative calls it in and specifies 'kill' -- because you shot him with lethals while he was trying to detain you.
In 'agreement terms', that puts you at one count of Infiltration and one count of Felony Assault.
No, having the AI let you in does not remove the 'Infiltration' charge. You didn't have access and you were not given permission.
Upon the next encounter, you're shot three times with lethals. The operative, while technically in their right to kill you then and there, doesn't. They call for backup. At no point during this conversation do you make any attempt to calm it down -- you are just spewing insults like 'YOU SPASTIC' and begging the AI to tell them it let you in before they 'kill you'.
I don't know what happened to force them to stun you again a few minutes in to this drama show, but it's seeming like you were trying to escape based on the attack logs and chatlogs. Especially since they only started handcuffing you afterwards.
You're then brought to medbay(after somebody interrupts them on the way there.)
You keep saying 'I AM LITERALLY BLIND' as an excuse. This does not change the situation.
The peanut gallery nearby is saying 'STOP HURTING MOORE', 'Don't you harm a hair on your head', 'HASHTAG FREE MOORE.' while you're being treated.
As this continues, the peanut gallery starts going on about lings and blah blah blah.
Then you're prepared for transit to the brig, and....
[01:42:59] b70-dLvB SAY: Melanie Moore/Stealthkibbler : DONT LET ME THEM TAKE FRIENDS
[01:43:05] b70-dLvB SAY: Melanie Moore/Stealthkibbler : THE OPERATIVE STARTED IT
[01:43:19] b70-dLvB SAY: Lenny Balboni/ : FREE MELANIE!
[01:43:20] b70-dLvB SAY: Melanie Moore/Stealthkibbler : OPERATIVE GRAHAM SHOT AT ME FOR ENTERING AN AREA THE AI LET ME INTO
[01:43:34] b70-dLvB SAY: Melanie Moore/Stealthkibbler : THEY ARE GOING TO SILENCE ME
Now you're inciting a riot.
Because of this, the operative is shouting to cover your mouth.
The operative asks for permission to execute you for attempting to incite a mutiny. Things happen, you get thrown in a pit of slimes
The rioting starts from what I can tell when Lenny and Robyn attempted to free you by breaking windows. The shooting started with Gray tasing Lenny, then it gets out of hand when more people join in on shooting Ironhammer. Nobody is using lethal weapons at this point.
You know, until Andrej Popovic pulls out an energy sword.
Things happen, people die. Graham is the one doing pretty much all of the lethal shooting at this point now that Popovic is dead.
More people join in, Gray gets killed because of that.
Ends up with most of Ironhammer dead because of a majority non-antagonist riot. Lots of deadchat salt.

[01:50:00] b70-dLvB SAY: Ghost/cencere : Lmao, a bunch of Traitors and Changelings were like: ha ha ha PROVOCATION, time to get all the non-antags to help us riot!
[01:55:34] b70-dLvB SAY: Ghost/cencere : So three antagonists start a mutiny, and a bunch of randoms join along with it. Very epic.


Which started because you entered Cargo illegally with the AI, to get a roach -- ignored the operative accosting you because you 'didn't see him'(welding blindness), shot him with lethals, and kept screaming about how they were going to execute you/silence you and how it was all IH's fault and blah blah.


In summary, your actions are directly responsible for more eris-TDM. You started a riot and effectively ruined multiple people's rounds because you didn't want to get arrested.

And your response to being banned because of it is to write a long-winded post practically blaming Gray for everything and taking zero responsibility for doing the exact same shit we've been having problems with for months and begun cracking down on.

The reality of the situation is that the ban was made by an independent party without any input from Gray (as he has already shown), who, like myself, judged the situation worth of a ban -- and your appeal isn't an appeal. It's a persuasive essay which muddies the line between truth and fiction.

Based on these facts and the context given by yourself and Gray, my ruling is that the ban is justified. It sticks. Take the two weeks to re-evaluate your actions and how they affect other players.


If Ilya wishes to overrule that, it's up to him -- seeing as it's his ban and he's technically my boss.

Re: Stealthkibbler - Illyall

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:06 pm
by IlyaIII
Righty-ho, I guess that's all the replies we'll see and so let me conclude that whole ban and this appeal.
To begin with, just as Ancient said and so would I - the fact that AI let you in doesn't give you a permission while being vagabond to enter such areas, just as it doesn't give you a permission to shoot lethal at anyone, absolutely similar situation to "being blind" that didn't stop you from looking at roach you wanted to retrieve from cargo, shooting plasma at officer, saying:
[01:41:41] b70-dLvB SAY: Melanie Moore/Stealthkibbler : Okay, see those 4 people outside medical
[01:41:44] b70-dLvB SAY: Melanie Moore/Stealthkibbler : They are my friends
[01:41:47] b70-dLvB SAY: Melanie Moore/Stealthkibbler : They wont let me take you
It's just not a good justification, if that's a justification for such actions at all.
And so without that justification, you've decided that it's going to be a good idea to call people to help you against IH that wasn't going to kill you at the beginning. Not asking for a forgiveness, not explaining the whole situation while mentioning that you didn't want to cause any trouble and all you wanted to do is to be at your ranch to IH inspector, FO or anyone really, instead screaming that "AI LET ME IN" and "I'M BLIND" that is, again, not a justification for anything that happened.

The reason for that ban isn't only about battle royale of IH, vagabonds, traitors and whatnot that followed your execution, it's also about 0 consideration of proper attempts to defuse that whole situation. You've had plenty of time to show that you don't want to cause chaos and be executed for a minor mistake, but you've decided to be all like "You don't have any reason to keep me detained! It was all legal, let me go at once!", having people on your side and also not trying to tell them to do their stuff because it's too much of a fuss to cause. Think properly about ways to stop such situations from developing too much, because if you are going to scream about IH taking you in custody 4nr, starting all that situation, silencing you while you are 100% right in that issue, it would never end up peacefully and it's not something we'd want to see every round.

And so that ban stays as it is. And not because of bad logs, not because of bad rules and not because it's a kneejerk reaction.
The length of ban may be questioned but that's how I handle such things and I personally (though may be wrong) doesn't see anything wrong with that.