30 day job ban from AI, pAI, Borg

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SilverWolves
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2022 11:36 pm

30 day job ban from AI, pAI, Borg

Post by SilverWolves »

BYOND username/Discord Name and Tag:

SilverWolves#6367

Banning admin:

valothebrute

Where were you banned:

En server

Type of Ban:

Job ban

Duration of ban(if temp):

30 days / 131400 minutes.

Reason for ban:

You have been jobbanned by valothebrute from: pAI, AI, Robot.
The reason is: Panic Siphoned all of Neotheology and Executed a vagabond over taped cameras as a non malf AI. please get some more experience under your belt. 3 month AI and Borg job ban.
This jobban will be lifted in 131400 minutes.

Your version of events:

I don't know exactly where to start but first ill start by correcting what valo said

First I requested permission to terminate the vagabond as he didn't just tape cameras he infiltrated IH and I viewed that as a significant risk as if he did it once he can do it again, first officer then provides me the permission to (I quote) ""You may terminate them, a little""
I believed the termination to be just, and first officer confirmed it, Captain was not available (was not awake from a cryo yet)

Second the neotheology, that is highly over exaggerated I panic siphoned 1 room that a neotheology member that was destroying the ship was in, I was aware of them wearing a suit, and as neotheology doors are not controllable by AI I decided that the best way to contain him was to activate panic siphon causing all the shutters to close, because he was wearing a suit I was completely aware this would not harm him therefore following my laws to the best of my ability while not harming Eris crew

Which brings me to my confusion aswell with being told that I was not a malf AI which once again implies that I did something against my laws (Which I did not at any point)

Why you think you should be unbanned:

I believe the ban is unjust and at the very least the situation should have been given a warning. I followed all my laws and did not disobey them at any point.
However a 30 DAY JOB BAN for someone who has played AI fairly well over a single situation seems a bit over the top.

Extra notes:

Here is the chat log

file:///C:/Users/Owner/Downloads/SS13_Chat_Log_2022-11-05_212722.html

I also propose the issue of having job bans for certain jobs such as AI maybe instead have people that offer "apply" for the more sensitive classes such as AI, as job banning someone playing AI when they are simply playing to the best of there ability if anything prevents there progress into further understanding the role, a class such as AI cannot be learned as a part of the crew because the playstyle is vastly different (at least in my opinion) then any crew member maybe excluding technomancers but still very different. I do believe some sort of "crash course/test" should be implemented for those who wish to play AI to make sure they are able to play it. However this is just a opinion and is probably way to much to implement for a single job so I understand why the idea would be rejected. This would indirectly decrease the overall work load for AI reports (if there really is any because AI seem to be quite unpopular among the player base from what I've heard), if you make it something such as a google form/test/quiz this could be applied to other jobs that require you to play them to learn them.

SilverWolves
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2022 11:36 pm

Re: 30 day job ban from AI, pAI, Borg

Post by SilverWolves »

SilverWolves
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2022 11:36 pm

Re: 30 day job ban from AI, pAI, Borg

Post by SilverWolves »

Also forgot to add this into notes, In my opinion and I believe it is also the only way to physically quantify it as "terminated/death/killing" cannot be physically quantified as a little or big as deaths value is a non existent value death is death, the only way to quantify it is by the way in which it is taken out, such as a big death would be something like a execution on a guillotine IN front of a big crowd (for a historical reference) or ingame a firing line with the ships passengers as the audience

A normal termination just implies that nothing fancy is done to take him out he is to just be killed

and a little termination would be to do it at a small scale its to just kill them in a non extreme way
User avatar
Valo
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon May 30, 2022 11:27 pm

Re: 30 day job ban from AI, pAI, Borg

Post by Valo »

First off, the FO did miscommunicate on what he wanted but you should not have been asking to execute the vagabond in the first place. He already was in custody and his crimes were not a severe danger to the ship. There was not a long running conflict between you two either.

Secondly, you could have just called ironhammer or ignored it instead of venting the church. Several rooms were vented not just botany and there was people in neotheo in nearby rooms without pressure suits or o2 gear, including a ssd person. Causing wide scale damage over a single guy taping cams is abit much. all this plus the behavior i got from you during the ahelp really does not make me feel at all confident that your going to play AI better if the ban is lifted
SilverWolves
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2022 11:36 pm

Re: 30 day job ban from AI, pAI, Borg

Post by SilverWolves »

I do apologize I was really confused and panicking a little bit and already agitated at one of the crew because normally im fine with being told what to do as AI but this one damn guy was really getting on my nerves and everyone else's so much so that captain changed my laws for the simple fact of getting him to shut up, ontop of the fact that I was still trying to deal with everyone ingame claiming I murdered him even though I got confirmation from fo and the fact that they all were thinking I killed 2 people even though it was just the 1 guy and I never causes anyone else death however, also forgot to mention this because of his repeated damaging of the ship I couldn't tell that it drained other rooms because all my other cameras were gone. I thought the safety shutters kept the pressure in the rooms beside it as that is what ive always seen, I have been playing AI just fine for the past almost a week straight and probably have around 50 hours of playtime as AI. This was the only time I ever truly slipped up, I do apologize for how I was speaking during ahelp. I also had a convo with gray and got him to help me clarify anything I didn't understand for the phrasings and the meanings of the laws and the to and to nots of what will get me in trouble, after all playing AI is already a bit hard when it comes to laws and making sure you follow them in a accurate manner for the situation. Also as for my laws being this

Obey these laws:
1. Serve: Obey CEV Eris crew to the best of your abilities, with priority as according to their rank and role.
2. Safeguard: Protect your assigned vessel from damage to the best of your abilities.
3. Protect: Protect CEV Eris crew to the best of your abilities, with priority as according to their rank and role.
4. Preserve: Do not allow unauthorized personnel to tamper with your equipment. Only Captain, Moebius Expedition Overseer, First Officer and Technomancer Exultant are authorized to change your laws. Roboticists, Technomancers and their superiors are permitted to perform repairs.
5. Ignore: Non-crew personnel should not be interacted with unless they are a threat to the crew, the ship, or an order is given to interact with them by a crewmember.

According to a mix of both law 2, law 3, and law 5. I did my job as AI correctly I requested termination FROM FO because I saw him as a threat to the ship, and to the crew for he not only was disabling my reach to the ship but he was also a direct threat to IH if he managed to get into it once. He is not a part of the crew therefore is the reason why I asked captain about termination. I do believe I followed my laws correctly for terminating him would be protecting the ship and the crew which is my top priority (including the other laws) excluding server rules which is the highest of priority. It was more of a formality to request the termination of the vagabond and I honestly wasn't expecting to be granted permission however once I was granted permission I followed through and terminated the vagabond. I do not believe it was FO fault neither do I believe it was mine
I do believe it was overall a miscommunication and the fact that AI aren't supposed to take sarcasm very well including the fact this is a game its even harder to tell when somethings sarcasm, also to be fair you should never really joke with a AI it's not exactly the smartest of things to do for the system that has to obey orders...
SilverWolves
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2022 11:36 pm

Re: 30 day job ban from AI, pAI, Borg

Post by SilverWolves »

Ah let me correct myself in the first bit "I do apologize I was really confused and panicking a little bit and already agitated at one of the crew because normally im fine with being told what to do as AI but this one damn guy was really getting on my nerves and everyone else's so much so that captain changed my laws for the simple fact of getting him to shut up, ontop of the fact that I was still trying to deal with everyone ingame claiming I murdered the VAGABOND/PRISONER even though I got confirmation from fo and the fact that they all were thinking I killed 2 people even though it was just the 1 VAGABOND and I never caused anyone else death however" should be
SilverWolves
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2022 11:36 pm

Re: 30 day job ban from AI, pAI, Borg

Post by SilverWolves »

also he wasn't taping cameras he was straight shooting them out with a weapon
SilverWolves
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2022 11:36 pm

Re: 30 day job ban from AI, pAI, Borg

Post by SilverWolves »

Overall I do simply wish to go back to playing AI with the knowledge of my mistakes so that I do not make them again.
SilverWolves
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2022 11:36 pm

Re: 30 day job ban from AI, pAI, Borg

Post by SilverWolves »

Which actually brings me to a question, in a situation where I just do not like the potential issues that come even with my AI laws, can I just in OOC just say no? and make the point that I don't like where this can technically lead/cause issues? like what situations would I have that permission
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Gray
EN Sector Head
Posts: 220
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:28 pm

Re: 30 day job ban from AI, pAI, Borg

Post by Gray »

This is denied at this time. I think you should shit it out. Apologies for the late reply.
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