Discordia

SPCR wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 11:30 am Also i believe with the evidence provided, it is quite clear Spice and John Bell were working togheter and that i had more than enough reason to execute Spice(Unless you consider full enforcement of the agreement by the letter in all situations without regard for job and background by IH as something that must be enforced OOCly by admins)
I also do not see why IC lying of the contractor status was included as logs since i dont believe it is relevant to the ban. It is a common tactic to avoid giving anyone any excuse to raid IH

You also said initially told me "he was a contractor in ahelps" then later backtracked on that
PM: SPCR/(/(Andres Joghs))->ValoTheBrute/(/(valothebrute BSTech)): He helped john bell.

PM: SPCR/(/(Andres Joghs))->ValoTheBrute/(/(valothebrute BSTech)): and was also a contractor himself

PM: SPCR/(/(Andres Joghs))->ValoTheBrute/(/(valothebrute BSTech)): Last time i checked , being a contractor is either pema or execution.

PM: ValoTheBrute/(/(valothebrute BSTech))->Tactical Tortoise/(/(Spice)): hes says you are a contractor but you dont show up on the antag list

PM: Tactical Tortoise/(/(Spice))->ValoTheBrute/(/(valothebrute BSTech)): im not bell was the contractor

PM: ValoTheBrute/(/(valothebrute BSTech))->SPCR/(/(Andres Joghs)): he's not on the antag list and doesnt have an uplink

PM: ValoTheBrute/(/(valothebrute BSTech))->SPCR/(/(Andres Joghs)): also what contractor gear did he have?

PM: SPCR/(/(Andres Joghs))->ValoTheBrute/(/(valothebrute BSTech)): 3 1500X cells

My read of the logs still holds up that he only talked about a potential heist with bell and never executed upon that. Spice hadn't done anything illegal, or worthy of execution

Valo wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 5:36 pm

SPCR wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 11:30 am Also i believe with the evidence provided, it is quite clear Spice and John Bell were working togheter and that i had more than enough reason to execute Spice(Unless you consider full enforcement of the agreement by the letter in all situations without regard for job and background by IH as something that must be enforced OOCly by admins)
I also do not see why IC lying of the contractor status was included as logs since i dont believe it is relevant to the ban. It is a common tactic to avoid giving anyone any excuse to raid IH

You also said initially told me "he was a contractor in ahelps" then later backtracked on that
PM: SPCR/(/(Andres Joghs))->ValoTheBrute/(/(valothebrute BSTech)): He helped john bell.

PM: SPCR/(/(Andres Joghs))->ValoTheBrute/(/(valothebrute BSTech)): and was also a contractor himself

PM: SPCR/(/(Andres Joghs))->ValoTheBrute/(/(valothebrute BSTech)): Last time i checked , being a contractor is either pema or execution.

PM: ValoTheBrute/(/(valothebrute BSTech))->Tactical Tortoise/(/(Spice)): hes says you are a contractor but you dont show up on the antag list

PM: Tactical Tortoise/(/(Spice))->ValoTheBrute/(/(valothebrute BSTech)): im not bell was the contractor

PM: ValoTheBrute/(/(valothebrute BSTech))->SPCR/(/(Andres Joghs)): he's not on the antag list and doesnt have an uplink

I didn't backtrack until you mentioned that OOCly hes not a contractor, also your logs clearly show him implanting for bell's contract and John Bell mentioning a break-out for him guy , which clearly shows they worked togheter ( and explains how he got the 3 1500X cells ) and his awfully suspicious positioning near the FO's office (Along with the logs and his discussion about helping break into the bridge)

I dont see much of an issue with the situation. Spice violates red paragraph by breaking into FO office, then supossedly leaving the bridge along with Bell. Result of the collaboration is Captain eating shit and dying.
Being acomplice with the former is like 10-20 minute jail time, the latter elevates it to perma or execution. Considering that homocidal acomplice is still running rampant, permabdigging sounds retarded, and the whole situation boils down to salt about SPCR and Inspector not creating situation for heroic rescue during 15 minutes larp interogation, when game knowledge lets them already determine that he would be found guilty anyway and then executed.

Ban should be lifted in my opinion

daget24 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 6:43 pm I dont see much of an issue with the situation. Spice violates red paragraph by breaking into FO office,
then supossedly leaving the bridge along with Bell.
Result of the collaboration is Captain eating shit and dying.

Spice didnt break into bridge with Bell, that was montauge again. no logs show him breaking into FO's office either

Yes logs dont show doors beig opened, tiles being touched, and IDs being modified. Who actually done something has little to no relevance. Circumstances made Spice a valid suspect, and then valid acomplice in ironhammer eyes and he unjustly from his perspective, but properly justified from IH side, he ate shit for it. Its a case of collateral damage not shitsec.

I've formed an opinion and judgement based on logs and the context available to IH at the time. I'll close this up by Thursday but I will leave this open for discussion or comments until then.

Valo wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 7:35 pm

daget24 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 6:43 pm I dont see much of an issue with the situation. Spice violates red paragraph by breaking into FO office,
then supossedly leaving the bridge along with Bell.
Result of the collaboration is Captain eating shit and dying.

Spice didnt break into bridge with Bell, that was montauge again. no logs show him breaking into FO's office either

It doesn't matter if the logs show or do not show he did not break in. His refusal to give up a search , along with him shooting at IH, and Bell deciding to help instead of running proved more than enough to make him a VERY VALID SUSPECT for IH to consider as a contractor.
If we took everything from logs and assumed everyone knew everything you'd be banning a whole lot more people.
John Bell and Spice were both togheter ,following a bridge fight , and the north of the FO office hallway isn't something you usually sit idle-by as a vagabond , no trash , no roaches , nothing to steal or loot. It was quite clear that Spice was either helping bell or just deciding to follow him for whatever reason.
It is very reasonable to assume that they just came out of the bridge(with the AA they stole) ,but to also give them some doubt(maybe they just wanted to steal ian) and ask for a search first instead of shooting on sight and being called shitsec.

Also to top this off , i was stuck in IH Lobby - Bridge stairs , and considering that i heard doors opening and closing , and them at the FO office , the only office with a direct connection to command hallways, i had more than enough evidence to probably wordlessly shoot them, but under Headadmin standards that is not considered acceptable.

It doesn't matter if the logs show or do not show he did not break in. His refusal to give up a search , along with him shooting at IH.

there aren't any logs of him shooting at IH During the arrest. just some failed grabfu